deer creek wirehaired pointing griffons

Wirehaired Pointing Griffons are a medium-sized breed. His dogs, beginning in the 1870s, are considered to be the main lineage of all Wirehaired Pointing Griffons today. Click on the button below to contact us for more information on how to take the next step towards taking home a new family member! These are other things that you might want to think about and research elsewhere. You may inquire about getting on the list for an upcoming litter and we can discuss which is the best option for you based on pedigree, hunt, show or family pet. The average Wirehaired Pointing Griffon size is larger for males than for females. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. If you go swimming in the outdoors your WiredhairedPointing Griffon is sure to follow. Hence, only consider this pooch if you have the time, Compared to many purebreds, the Pointing Griffon is incredibly healthy, with few inherent genetic issues. Outgoing, eager, and quick-witted, Griffs are . The first Wirehaired Pointing Griffon was introduced to North America in the late 19th century, and the American Kennel Club recognized the breed in 1916. These doggies need companionship. Introduce them to your hunting practices early in order to maximize their abilities. If you have any questions, please feel free to call, text, or email me at : f you place a deposit, you are on the list for a puppy! Height Average Height: 20-24 inches Weight Average Weight: 50-60 pounds Breed Standard & History These Idaho Wiredhaired Pointing Griffon are out of hunting stock, but will also make a great companion. Despite its hunting desires, it is a delightful companion that enjoys watching the family and playing with the children. Swift Creek Griffons. Home of hunting Wirehaired Pointing Griffons, A little too much adventure Bright, yellow-brown eyes look . We do not practice Line or In-Line Breeding. Thorn Creek has been breeding quality Wirehaired Pointing Griffons Since 2007. You may decide whether you would like a female or a male puppy and then depending on what discipline you would like, Hunt, Show or Family pet and what puppy might be the best fit for you and your family. How Much Does a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Cost? Youre Not Alone, Pesticide in Produce: See the Latest Dirty Dozen, Having A-Fib Might Raise Odds for Dementia, New Book: Take Control of Your Heart Disease Risk, MINOCA: The Heart Attack You Didnt See Coming, Health News and Information, Delivered to Your Inbox, Characteristics of Wirehaired Pointing Griffons, Health Problems to Watch for With Wirehaired Pointing Griffons, Special Considerations for Wirehaired Pointing Griffons. If you have any questions, please feel free to call, text, or email me at : 435-406-4222 or deepcreekmountaingriffons@gmail.com Keep in mind, every puppy we have ever sold here at Chapel View was spoken for prior to conception. Only when excited, or trying to capture your attention. They love children, and are known to be playful, energetic, and affectionate around them. A healthy adult Wirehaired Pointing Griffon grows to between 20 and 24 inches in height and is between 51 and 60 lb in weight. Once you place a deposit, I need to know which gender you prefer. They can develop a massive bond with their family but not to the extent of showing jealousy toward other humans or animals. Make sure you know what human foods are safe for dogs to eat before you share any meals with your pet., Exercise and Mental Stimulation.Wirehaired Pointing Griffons have a substantial need for both mental and physical stimulation. 217 The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon has its origins as a gun dog. Charity Upchurch At this time, noblemen and other men from well-to-do families were eager to cross large varieties of pointing and hunting breeds in order to create an ideal sporting companion. GSP Puppies expected June 2023 - German Shorthaired Pointers in Denver, Pennsylvania - Middle Creek Kennels Reserve / Purchase Ask Breeder A Question About This Ad . Send Email to Deer Creek Wirehaired Pointing Griffons. Many pet owners physiologies react badly to the. Wirehaired Pointing Griffons come in steel gray with brown markingswhich vary . A written statement from your vet on the issue would be required to activate this clause and we may or may not require a second opinion based on the findings. There are lots of deserving dogs in rescues across the country, and it can be an incredibly rewarding experience. Yes. I refuse to contribute to the growing puppy mill and backyard breeding issue in the country. (513) 571-0289. twincreekgriffons@gmail.com. Theyre great with young children and open with strangers. Thats not to say you can completely forget about Wirehaired Pointing Griffon grooming sessions it still needs weekly brushing to remove any trapped detritus or dander. Deer Island, OR 97054 United States. If the hair on top of the ears is not laying flat, use thinning shears to even it out to lay down. We have a 5 month old griff and hes seems to get matted very easily. Originally breeding Wirehaired Pointing Griffons in Utah for the last 15 years Thorn Creek has since moved to Western Washington where we continue to raise quality family companiion hunting dogs. Each puppy will be guaranteed for a full 36 months for Hips, Eyes and Elbows. American Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Association (AWPGA). Your vet may choose to work with a veterinary dermatologist to determine the best course of action for your furry friend. The undercoat is thick, insulating, and water-repellent. Wayfarer's Kennel. 83 talking about this. The AWPGA is a club for the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon enthusiast. All breeding dogs have great Instinctual hunting desire and water drive. While they are known for their excellent dry land and water hunting skills, these dogs also make laid-back and affectionate companions. Females are slightly shorter with an average height of 20 to 22 inches. History, Care Tips, and Helpful Information for Pet Owners. Fast on the uptake and eager to please, they are easily trainable. This heavy-duty crate is made using robust steel wires . Medium Sized. Duffy and Cathleen McCabe. Due to my dogs spending so much time in the woods and field, I feel like I need to use the flea and tick shampoo in addition to my monthly flea and tick preventative regimen. Although, some exceptions can be made with extensive screening. Rocky. These practices are ones we have been using for the past 30 years through breeding Border Collies, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and now our beloved Griffons! They love human contact and need attention daily. The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon has a double coat that is super thick to act as insulation for winter hunting and swimming. Its commonly referred to as Korthals Griffon in that region. And I have dove, quail, duck, tracked deer and found them, pheasant, chukar, grouse, and tracked and found a wounded turkey . We are excited for our upcoming 2023 litter which will be available in the spring! The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Training with a Long Line. BBs AKC Field Trial: Amateur Walking DerbyStakes, Charity Upchurch Price: 900. This means that they have some unique features. There we handle each pup daily and allow them to run with their adult Griff pack. If all looks good, we can move forward with the deposit process.***. Theyre particularly energetic as puppies and need daily exercise at every age., Theyre also very sociable animals and shouldnt be left in a kennel for a long time., They love playing fetch and going on long walks in nature. The American Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Association hosted an Eastern Regional Specialty in York and Wellsville, Pennsylvania from March 17-19. Feb 13, 2014 @ 10:13:22. The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon is a happy and loving dog breed. Females are slightly smaller, weighing 35 to 50 pounds and standing 20 to 22 inches tall, on average. Here is a video of me cleaning Sams ears:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjgP6KNDfi8. Despite what you may read elsewhere, the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon isnt non-shedding. But keep in mind that they dont need to hunt to be happy. As with every one of the animals and birds here at the farm, we feel that nutrition is key and essential to the development of this wonderful breed and we pass our dedication and research on to many others. That would make it a complete freak of nature. Please call (we prefer to talk to all prospective clients) or email us for information about the availability of our upcoming litters. Height: 22 to 24 inches (males); 20 to 22 inches (females), Weight: 50 to 70 pounds (males); 35 to 50 pounds (females), Coat: Medium length, straight, wiry topcoat, and a fine, thick undercoat, Coat Color: Steel gray with brown markings or combinations of brown, white, roan, and orange, Temperament: Gentle, loyal, alert, companionable, proud, friendly. Wirehaired Pointing Griffons also have a propensity towards alert barking, so this may require some work to ensure that it does not get out of control. Health & Vaccines: Sire Pennhip - Right DI = 0.20, Left DI = 0.20 (Ranks in the top 5% of all griffons ever tested) Dam Pennhip - Right DI = 0.31, Left DI = 0.29 All puppies have tails docked . We are dedicated to placing each of our puppies with active families who are able to provided a home that is suited to their temperament and abilities. We offer a FREE business directory listing. I've never had a bad experience with any Griffon. Little. Usually very healthy, but can suffer from. At the very least, you should take your Pointing Griffon outside for activity sessions for at least 1 to 1.5 hours per day. While Wirehaired Pointing Griffons can make good watchdogs, their gentle personas mean they are not suited to be guard dogs. Many of these medications can be effective against a variety of pests and parasites, so talk to your veterinarian to figure out the best one for you. Yes, but probably less than any other canine. 6581 Kinne Rd. Recently, one of my owners had a downed deer that had escaped into the brush as dusk was settling in. Here is the photograph that I use for a guide (thank you to Paige Pettis of Pageskas Griffon Town in Nova Scotia, Canada for use of the photo): Two very handsome Wirehaired Pointing Griffons ready for the show ring in Quebec, Canada. These doggies are incredibly fast learners and respond well to training. Home Deer Creek Wirehaired Pointing Griffons. Wirehaired Pointing Griffon enthusiasts; information from diet and health tips to grooming info and training instructions. We do not practice Line or In-Line Breeding. Wirehaired Pointing Griffons will track almost any game. Females are slightly shorter with an average height of 20 to 22 inches., Healthy males can weigh anywhere from 50 to 70 pounds depending on their height and body shape. Around 9 months the dog should have his full adult coat, which shouldnt be so bad. Good luck! At this age, he still has his puppy coat, which is soft and mats very easily. As of right now I feed them Purina Pro Plan Sport 30/20 and Purina Pro Plan Puppy (as well as Omega supplements), which is available to them at all times. The Chapel View Wirehaired Pointing Griffon bloodlines are second to none with part of our pedigrees coming from the Westminster Best Of Breed Winning lines derived from Flatbrook Kennels. If you havent already, in the more tab there is a buyer contract to read that we will sign when you pick up your pup. Both are outstanding versatile dogs, capable of rigorous upland bird work and waterfowl retrieving. And hence as poochie hair is one of the, of pet intolerance this makes the Pointing Griffon, Whats more, the wiry coats of these dogs retain their, the discarded dead skin cells that can also send you into coughing and. Goose, Lilly, June, Czara, and Gabby are members of our family and we treat them that way. As a result, this breed is high energy, affectionate, and eager to please. You will find information on history, hunting, conformation, performance events, health and genetics, and the club itself on these pages. Their intelligence, hard-working nature, and energetic personalities mean they are well suited to dog sports like agility and scent work trials. Also known as the Korthals Griffon, the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon is a medium-sized Dutch dog breed in the sporting group with wiry fur and signature facial hair. Steel gray, steel gray and brown (chestnut brown, roan), white and brown, white and orange, brown, tan, white, and black. The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon shedding levels are remarkably low making them one of the. Founded in 1884, the not-for-profit AKC is the recognized and trusted expert in breed, health, and training information for all dogs. They are often referred to as Korthals Griffons in parts of Europe in recognition of their history. Trainability. Scroll .01 about us AR Kennel and Wirehaired Pointing Griffons. AKC actively advocates for responsible dog ownership and is dedicated to advancing dog sports. The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon has a low-maintenance grooming regime. Griffs have recognizable eyebrows and a beard that act as protection in the field. Check with your local shelters and rescues to find Wirehaired Pointing Griffons and similar breeds in need of forever homes. No shortcuts are taken to breed healthy, happy, versatile griffons. Go. You should brush out their coats about once a week or when you notice any tangles. They are AKC Registered and can also be registered with NAVHDA.Griffs have natural hunting abilities and are great with birds and waterfowls. If youre not a sportsperson, and dont have the time to devote to daily stimulating exercise, this isnt the companion for you. I'm the breeder behind Bristle Creek Wirehaired Pointing Griffons located in Omro, WI. His aim was to create an extremely versatile gun dog, one which would be multitalented, extremely devoted to its master, and extraordinary resilient while on the hunt. Horseshoe Creek Wirehaired Pointing Griffons is to share news, updates and other information. Shipping Certificates from our Vets are always ready the day you arrive or the day the puppy is shipped. An $800 deposit and then $1,000 final cash payment when you pick up your pup. The Ancestry Tree. There is much debate about the true origins of this breed, with some believing they could have traces of dogs like Pointer, Spaniel, Otterhound, and Setter in their origins. They have a distinctive wiry coat that is weather-resistant and provides excellent protection against the elements. #384Syracuse, NY 13214(800) 988-7115hi@wpg.dog. Whether you are new in your farm life journey or know exactly what you are seeking we are here to answer any questions you may have. Thread starter hayseed_theology; Start date Oct 1, 2010; 1; 2; Next. They are ranked 65th out of 195 breeds by the. Theyre slightly longer than they are tall. Please do your research on the breed to make sure that it is the right fit for you and your family. We are the AKC parent club for the breed and as such are focused on all aspects of our dogs lives. The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon stands . I also have a dog shampoo brush that I failed to include in my video, but it looks something like this:http://www.petsupplies.com/item/groomaster-rubber-brush-for-dogs/494975/. Not ideally. Most responsible breeders complete hip scoring and eye checks to reduce the possibility of the following issues: As with all dog breeds, you should feed your Wirehaired Pointing Griffon a high-quality and properly portion-controlled diet. While they are known for their excellent dry land and water hunting skills, these dogs also make laid-back and affectionate companions. Also make sure that the fur on the back of the head . It makes them ideal for pheasant hunters who regularly wound a bird still fit for escape by going through the fields when brought down. But as the Pointing Griffon isnt going to drench you or your home with spit, your allergies are kept at bay! Please do your research on the breed to make sure that it is the right fit for you and your family. Fast on the uptake and eager to please, they are easily trainable. Energy Level. Characteristics of the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon, Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Training and Exercise, Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Health Issues, Dog Deshedding Guide Everything You Need to Know. 1,036 likes. Provided that the dog has not been damaged in any way the purchaser will then be entitled to select another puppy that has NOT BEEN ALREADY DECIDED on by any other buyer. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Overall, this breed has a shaggy and unkempt appearance. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); https://www.instagram.com/bluestemkennelswpg/, Hunting Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Photos, BBs AKC Field Trial: Amateur Walking DerbyStakes, http://www.petsupplies.com/item/groomaster-rubber-brush-for-dogs/494975/, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjgP6KNDfi8. Check out the latest pics from our Facebook group below and join us today! As of right now I feed them Purina Pro Plan Sport 30/20 and Purina Pro Plan Puppy (as well as Omega supplements), which is available to them at all times. Dedicated to preservation breeding. Do Wirehaired Pointing Griffons Need Haircuts? He was the son of a wealthy banker and devoted decades of his free time to dog breeding pursuits. 02/23/2019 Genetic improvement of hip-extended scores in 3 breeds of guide dogs using estimated breeding values: Notable progress but more improvement is needed I have yet to learn how to clean my dogs teeth and right now rely on bones to keep them clean, but it is on my to-do list of things to learn (many folks have this done at their vet). Despite the fact that people have known about this dog for a long time, the breed is unpopular in the U.S., the United Kingdom, and Canada., The American Animal Hospital Association: 2017 AAHA Canine Vaccination Guidelines., American Heartworm Society: Heartworm Medicine for Dogs., American Kennel Club: Official Standard of the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon, Wirehaired Pointing Griffon., Europetnet: Wirehaired Pointing Griffon., UC Davis Veterinary Medicine: Fleas., United Kennel Club: Wire-Haired Pointing Griffon.. They were bred to work both on land and in water, so they also enjoy swimming., You should engage them every single day with new tasks and activities. Deep Creek Mountain Griffons. (LogOut/ Theyre highly trainable and eager to please their owners., Theyre also quick-witted, intelligent animals that can figure out some problems all on their own., Grooming.Wirehaired Pointing Griffons have moderate grooming requirements. Through selective crossing of numerous breeds, he developed a pooch that could hunt, point and retrieve even from the water, with its webbed feet! Larry and Alex have taken the time to go over every step of the ordering and shipping process, discussed feed programs, housing, even breeding. You can unsubscribe at any time. Wirehaired Pointing Griffons are fondly praised by breed enthusiasts for their humorous personalities and intentionally unkempt, lovable appearance. The true gauge of our effort is the size of our clients smile. Being one of the lowest hair-shedding dogs on the planet, this pooch is the ultimate companion for allergy sufferers. I then move on to make sure that the body hair is even. About Thorn Creek Kennel. They will need time off the leash, to chase, play, and retrieve. Furthermore, they have a lengthy lifespan, typically of 12-15 years. / 40 lbs. However, use positive reinforcement when teaching, not harsh correction. ***, For continuous updates, follow us on Instagram @deepcreekmountaingriffons. Trim the hair at the bottom of the ears so that it is even, even out the head furnishings a bit, trim around the snout so that it is somewhat uniform and then level out a well combed out beard. Hence, only consider this pooch if you have the time, dedication, and inclination to give him the attention he deserves and needs. The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon is known as the supreme gun dog. I then go through the process of cleaning my dogs ears. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. Griffons are known for their dense, low-shedding, easy-care double coat which consists of a wiry outer coat and a thick, weather-resistant undercoat. Females: 6. An $800 deposit and then $1,000 final cash payment when you pick up your pup. I have yet to try it out, but I do have a bottle and know the vast majority of griffon owners swear by it. Height: 20 - 24 inches. The Puppies are divided into three groups Hunt / Show / Pet Then, based on what you are looking for in your new Griff, you will be making the selection with our help from these three groups to be certain that you will have the puppy that will be perfect for your future. Either find a brand that your particular pet prefers or make the food yourself. 2005 - 2023 WebMD LLC, an Internet Brands company. They are AKC Registered and can also be registered withNAVHDA. Families that are active NAVHDA and or AKC members and/or hunters are given highest preference. Wirehaired Pointing Griffons ~ Bird Down Griffons, Klamath Falls, Oregon. Griffs have natural hunting abilities and are great with birds and waterfowls. The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon, also known as a Korthal's Griffon or just Griffon for short, is a medium-sized dog breed that typically weighs between 50 and 70 pounds and stands about 20 to 24 inches tall at the shoulder. Sign up to receive the latest information and helpful tips. Deer Creek Wirehaired Pointing Griffons. Page dedicated to our two Wirehaired Pointing Griffons and their upcoming litter . All of our dogs are AKC registered and up to date on all vaccinations and deworming. This dog brush not only efficiently removes tangles and matts from the outer coat of your doggie but also lets your doggie have a smooth and shiny coat. We have laid out the process for ordering Wirehaired Pointing Griffons from our Farm and what to expect along the way. Callao, UT 84083, USA 2018 by Deep Creek Mountain . (LogOut/ You should be able to see the puppies together with their mother in a nurturing home environment, and they shouldn't be allowed to come home with you until they are at least eight weeks old. 24 in. Both are types of markings that intersperse different colors across the coat., Eyes.They have large, rounded eyes that can be various shades of yellow and brown. Then if you like what you have learned, and would like to take the next step, you may put a deposit down to solidify your spot for the upcoming or future litter and then we can go to the next step. The problem was that, while one pooch may have excelled at pointing, it was invariably useless at retrieving and vice . Instead, consider one of the other, less high-maintenance, hypoallergenic pooches. My husband believes I am asking too much of our Hildie to keep her groomed daily, so I dont get help grooming her on a regular basis. Whats more, the wiry coats of these dogs retain their dander the discarded dead skin cells that can also send you into coughing and sneezing fits. in canine saliva overstimulating the inflammatory response and then causing itching and rashes. If you were kind, youd probably describe the Pointing Griffon as rugged and robust. Puppy buyers sometimes confuse the two, but the truth is that they are distinctly different breeds. They are very energetic andplayful. Versatile gun dogs that excel in all aspects of hunting upland game birds and waterfowl. The typical lifespan of a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon is. However, what is true is that these pooches lose remarkably less fur than most other dogs perhaps the lowest amount of all canines. German Wirehaired Pointer Giant Schnauzer Glen of Imaal Terrier Golden Retriever Gordon Setter Grand Basset Griffon Vendeen Great Dane Greater Swiss Mountain Dog Great Pyrenees Greyhound Hamiltonstovare Hanoverian Scenthound Harrier Havana Silk Dog Havanese Heideterrier Hokkaido Hovawart Ibizan Hound Icelandic Sheepdog Irish Red and White Setter Its outer coat is hard, coarse, wiry, and bristly, with a fine undercoat its the canine equivalent of bed hair. Trust me, theres little point trying to coiffure its fur into any particular style, or even attempting to make it tidy. It helps keep the dog warm and provides some water resistance. Despite being over a century since the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon was first bred as a gun dog, its desire to be out in the field hasnt changed. The American Kennel Club, Inc. 2022. U.S. STD Cases Increased During COVIDs 2nd Year, Have IBD and Insomnia? They should use a medium pace to conserve energy for all-day hunts., Lifespan.These dogs should live for over a decade.The average Wirehaired Pointing Griffon lifespan is 12 to 15 years. For example, the German Wirehaired Pointer lives anywhere from 13-15 years, while the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon lives 10-12 years. The final difference between a German Wirehaired Pointer and a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon are their lifespans. Wirehaired Pointing Griffons are considered a generally healthy breed. Please adjust your search criteria and try again. His goal was to create a breed of dog . By the time of Korthals' death in 1896, the breed had grown in numbers and popularity across Europe. Paws 'N' Pups Rank. They have an amazing personality and are a family dog. They love everyone. While considered by many experts to be the ultimate gun dog, the Pointing Griffon is also an excellent addition to the family. Wirehaired Pointing Griffon breeder in Southern California. As Ive since learned more about the process, I wanted to provide my readers and others scouring the internet for information with my most up-to-date knowledge. These are pooches that need to be in your home and with their pet parents. This breed enjoys playing and spending time outside to expel its energy, whether chasing a ball in the backyard or joining its owners on a hike. The result was the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon., He specifically designed this dog to function on land and in the water. The hardworking Wirehaired Pointing Griffon, renowned as the supreme gundog, is known for the harsh, low-shedding coat the breed is named for. I need to know how often we should groom her. Theyre equally content participating in an active family life.. They should become part of your everyday life accompanying you wherever you go. In conclusion, the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon is a remarkable dog breed due to its affectionate qualities, as well as its sense of devotion and loyalty towards owners. Furthermore, they have a lengthy lifespan, typically of, The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon is a lively, affectionate, devoted, and enthusiastic pooch, who will make a, Incredibly low-shedding, theyre perhaps one of the, If youre not a sportsperson, and dont have the time to devote to daily stimulating exercise, this isnt the, Yes, but probably less than any other canine. For this reason, they are best suited to a household where they will have company for most of the day. You must show them, through absolute consistency and great patience . The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon shedding levels are remarkably low making them one of the best hypoallergenic pooches. Hunting Dog Breeds Raised: . / 60 lbs. Answer a few simple questions and find the right dog for you, Compare up to 5 different breeds side by side, Browse the AKC Marketplace to find the right puppy for you, Browse our extensive library of dog names for inspiration, Find out the best and worst foods for your dog and which to avoid, Active Shooter & Mass Attack Safety Resources. Dosages for flea and tick medications are based on your dog's weight and used as needed. Heidi on point. The Wirehaired Pointing Griffon is a beautiful dog with exceptional hunting qualities. Males weigh between 50 to 70 pounds and stand 22 to 24 inches tall at the shoulders. Ear Mountain Griffons of Choteau, Montana is a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon kennel dedicated to the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon breed. I do not pluck my dogs ears, so I end up cleaning them quite a bit. Incredibly low-shedding, theyre perhaps one of the most hypoallergenic doggies on the planet. . If the dog needs a bath, I then bathe them with one of the above listed shampoos, scrubbing them down with the rubber shampoo brush. Lacking in either, these pooches become bored, depressed, and destructive. If you plan to adopt a puppy from a breeder, it's best to research credible breeders to increase your dog's chances of living a long, healthy life and growing up with the breed's ideal temperament. But you will need to ensure you meet its inherent, These doggies are incredibly fast learners and respond well to, They can live in an apartment, but thats far from ideal.

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